User talk:Tommy Kronkvist/Archive 2021

This is an archive of closed discussions. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this archive.

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Vítej nazpět

Určitě tě všichni rádi opět potkáme. --Rosičák (talk) 15:54, 10 January 2021 (UTC)

Thank you very much! –Tommy Kronkvist, 16:06, 10 January 2021 (UTC).

Review of a ms based on Wikispecies

Hi Tommy,

Would you (you or someone else familiar with Wikispecies) like to review my ms on Tydeoidea based on Wikispecies:

"The Tydeoidea (Ereynetidae, Iolinidae, Triophtydeidae and Tydeidae) - An online database" 12 pages + 1 table + 3 figures, abstract below.

An online database on the taxonomy of Tydeoidea is presented. It counts 1 321 records or pages, 721 records for the Tydeidae, 334 for the Ereynetidae, 203 for the Iolinidae and 63 for the Triophtydeidae. For each taxon are detailed the parent taxa as well as the child taxa which are listed. A nec subsection lists names of child taxa that are not recommended. Subjective and objective synonymies as well as homonymies are given for each taxon. Notes provide historical aspects of past studies. The type locality and habitat of the name-bearing type and its repository are added for the nominal species-group taxa. Fossil species, species inquirendae and nomina nuda are also reported. References and external links end up a record. Replacement names are provided for Aureliana, Naudea, Tydides, Orthotydeus longisetosus (homonymy) and for Paratydaeolus clavatus (synonymy).

I will be sending the ms at the adress you suggest,

Many thanks and best regards,

Henri M. André (talk) —The preceding undated comment was added 21:58, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

Hello Henri. I'm a little pressed for time today and perhaps tomorrow, but feel free to send the ms to me at tommykronkvistme.com anyway. I will check your ms ASAP, and also ponder upon if there are any of our WS users that might be better suited for the task (i.e. retain more knowledge about Trombidiformes than me). If so I will then send you a message about it, since for the sake of data integrity I will not send your ms to anyone else myself.

Best regards, Tommy Kronkvist, 06:44, 31 May 2021 (UTC).

I still have the problems

Thank you for your help with Natalia Dukelskaya. But it' look like the Wiki data page is not enough.

• ru:Корелов, Мстислав Николаевич and Mstislav Nikolayevich Korelov (There is wikidata page [1])
• ru:Бажанов, Валериан Семёнович and Valeryan Semenovich Bazhanov (There is wikidata page [2])
• ru:Воробьёв, Константин Александрович and Konstantin Aleksandrovich Vorobyev (There is wikidata page [3])
• ru:Некрутенко, Юрий Павлович and Yuri P. Nekrutenko (There is wikidata page [4])
• ru:Кириченко, Александр Николаевич and A.N. Kiritshenko
• ru:Бирштейн, Яков Авадьевич and Yakov Avadievich Birstein

Thank you in advance, Hunu (talk) 09:57, 12 June 2021 (UTC)

@Hunu: Some of the above Wikispecies pages did not have a corresponding Wikidata item, so I've created those. In some of the other above cases, Wikidata had duplicate pages for the authors: one for the page in Russian Wikipedia, and one for the page in Wikispecies. This is of course incorrect, and I have now merged those pages into one Wikidata item per author, as follows:

I haven't changed the Russian Wikipedia pages, so they are the same as before. Best regards, Tommy Kronkvist, 19:41, 12 June 2021 (UTC).

Thank you again. It's look like I will able to solve the problem. I will ask you if I will have difficulties again. Hunu (talk) 19:49, 12 June 2021 (UTC)

You are always welcome with your questions, suggestions, and ideas. Tommy Kronkvist, 19:55, 12 June 2021 (UTC).

Thank you

Hi Tommy, I just wanted to say thanks for following behind me and cleaning up the entries I added. I'm keeping a close eye on what you've been changing and am trying to learn how to make sure I'm confirming with the project's norms and standards. Thanks! Tcr25 (talk) 13:29, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

Hello Tcr25. You're most welcome. Don't hesitate to contact me here (or the community as a whole at the Village Pump) for any ideas, suggestions or questions. Kind regards, Tommy Kronkvist, 13:40, 13 June 2021 (UTC).

de Boerr disambiguation page

Just so you know, the two authors you listed at de Boerr actually have the surname de Boer, which is currently a redirect to Hendrik Wijbrand de Boer. Monster Iestyn (talk) 20:08, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

Yes, sorry, my mistake – I'm getting tired... :-) Thanks for pointing it out! It will be corrected within a few minutes. –Tommy Kronkvist, 20:18, 13 June 2021 (UTC).

Monster Iestyn: Now de Boer is changed into a disambiguation page rather than a redirect page, and the incorrectly named de Boerr is deleted. Thanks again for the heads up. –Tommy Kronkvist, 20:24, 13 June 2021 (UTC).

Modest Nikolajevitsh Bogdanov

Please note that Modest Bogdanov could not possibly have authored the Guide to the Butterflies of Russia and adjacent territories in 1997. I don’t know how to fix it. Hunu (talk) 11:12, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

Yes! I made it. Thank you. Hunu (talk) 11:37, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

@Hunu: Excuse me, but what exactly are you talking about? As far as I can see you have never edited the Modest Nikolajevitsh Bogdanov page, and I haven't either. And I haven't edited any of the taxon-, category- or template pages that refers to the Bogdanov page. So what is all of this about? Did I do something wrong? Tommy Kronkvist, 21:21, 16 June 2021 (UTC).

Presumably this edit. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:33, 23 June 2021 (UTC)

@Hunu: Bogdanov in 1997 is a different person (Pavel, not Modest). I corrected Modest's page.IFPNI Staff (talk) 19:37, 18 July 2021 (UTC)

Yes, It's exactly what I was thinking about Thanks. Hunu (talk) 19:41, 18 July 2021 (UTC)

@IFPNI Staff: Do you have any more information about this "Pavel V. Bogdanov" so that we can make an author page for him? Perhaps year of birth, nationality, and full name? –Tommy Kronkvist, 21:57, 18 July 2021 (UTC).

The only "Pavel Bogdanov's" I can currently find on Wikidata is Russian librarian Pavel Mikhailovich Bogdanov (1871–1919, Wikidata: Q15064552) and Russian comedian and cabaret artist Pavel Bogdanov (born 1986, Wikidata: Q107510053) and obviously neither one of those is "our" Pavel V. Bogdanov. –Tommy Kronkvist, 22:04, 18 July 2021 (UTC).

@Hunu: & @Tommy Kronkvist: I found a personal page of Pavel Vladimirovich Bogdanov (born 15 May 1958)

русский: Павел Владимирович Богданов

, who is now working in The Darwin Museum, Moscow, Russian Federation, from 1990 as a Curator of Butterflies' Collection: [5]. The names associated with Modest Bogdanov in WikiSpecies are wrong and should be re-attributed to P.V. Bogdanov. The page also contains a list of modern Bogdanov's papers on entomology in Russian, which might be useful to @Hunu:. Anna Pavlova, IFPNI ME IFPNI Staff (talk) 14:24, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

Thank you!

Many thanks for advice and guidelines to follow. Eve Hutch (talk) 16:24, 22 June 2021 (UTC+2)

@Eve Hutch: You're most welcome! Please don't hesitate to contact me here (or the community as a whole at the Village Pump) if you have any ideas, suggestions or questions. Kind regards, Tommy Kronkvist, 14:27, 22 June 2021 (UTC).

You've got mail

Hello, Tommy Kronkvist. Please check your email; you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{Ygm}} template.

Thanks, --DannyS712 (talk) 02:42, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

Replied. Tommy Kronkvist, 14:18, 2 July 2021 (UTC).

I've responded --DannyS712 (talk) 03:09, 7 July 2021 (UTC)

Ditto. Tommy Kronkvist, 03:15, 7 July 2021 (UTC).

Thanks. I've accepted - would you mind updating MediaWiki:Recentchangestext ? (Its in the MediaWiki namespace so non-admins can't do it themselves). Thanks, --DannyS712 (talk) 03:25, 7 July 2021 (UTC)

 Done. Tommy Kronkvist, 03:26, 7 July 2021 (UTC).

So its been more than the full 7 days and the poll should be closed - but I don't think there is a bureaucrats' noticeboard where I can post. How do I bring this to the attention of 'crats so that the discussion can be closed? Thanks, --DannyS712 (talk) 20:52, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Hi DannyS712! Sorry – the past 36 IRL hours or so have been hectic... Will fix the issue within minutes though! And no, weirdly enough we don't have a bureaucrats' noticeboard to match the Administrators' Noticeboard. A few years back this was a rather sleepy wiki project, and then we never really had the use for it. However things have changed and we have a lot more active users; I actually thought about creating a bureaucrats' noticeboard just a few days ago. Another somewhat odd thing is that we don't have a local Steward – for the same reason. Anyway wait ten minutes or so, and I'll hit you with some bureaucracy. ;-) Tommy Kronkvist, 21:14, 14 July 2021 (UTC).

Since you nominated me, are you sure it would be a good idea for you to close it? I was intending to get the attention of an uninvolved bureaucrat --DannyS712 (talk) 21:18, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

I didn't vote but yes, you're right. I'll give them a holler. –Tommy Kronkvist, 21:21, 14 July 2021 (UTC).

@DannyS712: All four bureaucrats who didn't take part in the discussion or voting regarding your administratorship have now been noted. Not all of them are logged in every day though. –Tommy Kronkvist‚ 21:55, 14 July 2021 (UTC).

Template:Nakai, 1928

I am not sure when and where the conclusion that we have to refrain from using "shorthand" templates was made. Could you show me the log or tell me what kind of problem could be expected if we use them? --Eryk Kij (talk) 10:34, 5 July 2021 (UTC)

Hello Eryk Kij, and thank you for your question. Over the years this has been discussed quite a number of times. Unfortunately these talks aren't well summarized in a single document (one of many things still on the to do-list…) but here's an example: Wikispecies:Village Pump/Archive 49#Author templates. One of several issues that may occur from using these "shorthand" templates has to do with the fact that author abbreviations are only "author specific" within the field of botany, but not in zoology. For an example, within botany the author abbreviation "Nakai" always specifically refers to Takenoshin Nakai, but within the field of zoology it may refer to any number of authors named Nakai, for example the ichthyologist Koji Nakai. In some cases there is a big risk of mixing up the authors. For example, while botanists always refers the author abbreviation "Anderson" to the Scottish botanist James Anderson, the zoologists may use that author abbreviation for a whole bunch of other Anderson's. Using the full author name in the templates (i.e. the author page name) minimizes the risk of such misunderstandings.

Please give me a day or two and I'll dig up some better and more to-the-point examples than the one from the Village Pump archive above. In the meantime you can do a search of your own, starting for example here: Special:Search/insource:shorthand.

–Best regards, Tommy Kronkvist, 15:13, 6 July 2021 (UTC)

Thank you. I had tried to find out with that keyword within the range of Discussion pages before I asked you, but no favorable result was obtained. --Eryk Kij (talk) 08:22, 7 July 2021 (UTC)

Indexing Portuguese names

So far as I've read up, people with Portuguese names (including people from Brazil) are typically sorted by the last name (which is the father's family name unlike in Spanish names). So unless I am mistaken, Mariluce Gonçalves Fonseca should be sorted as "Fonesca, Mariluce Goncalves"? Monster Iestyn (talk) 14:19, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

@Monster Iestyn: I guess you're right, but this is always a tricky issue. What about Spanish people wearing Portuguese names, or Malay people using Malaysian-Chinese names? We really ought to consider a site-wide policy for all of this. Such a policy would certainly be incorrect from time to time, but at least it would be consistent. In the mean time I've changed the sorting order of Mariluce Gonçalves Fonseca per your suggestion, in both the author page and the "Taxa by…" category. Best regards. Tommy Kronkvist, 15:04, 9 July 2021 (UTC).

R.E. Turner

Moved to: [[Talk:User talk:Accassidy#Rowland Edwards Turner]]
–Tommy Kronkvist, 22:16, 9 July 2021 (UTC).

J.R. Turner

Was the son of Dr. R.C. Turner. See footnote here. — The preceding unsigned comment was added by Accassidy (talk • contribs) 22:43, 9 July 2021‎ ‎.

Thanks @Alan! Hence we can also conclude that Viola N. Stallings is/was the sister of J.R. Turner and that she was married to Don B. Stallings (rather than being his sister, aunt or mother, etc.) This was a very useful piece of information. –Tommy Kronkvist, 22:56, 9 July 2021 (UTC).

To add to the confusion, there is now also a John R.G. Turner here. Accassidy (talk) 09:01, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

Squiggle

Moved to: [[Talk:Wikispecies:Village Pump/Archive 57#Squiggle]]
–Tommy Kronkvist, 12:37, 14 July 2021 (UTC).

New Administrator

I'd be happy to do this but I can't see how to. Is there a Special Page or something?--Keith Edkins (Talk) 23:21, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Hello Keith Edkins! The answer is "yes and no". There are four pages to be changed: in the Wikispecies, MediaWiki, Special, and User namespaces.

1. First just add a note at the poll saying that the poll is closed and the user is promoted (since there are only votes to support the adminship, and no votes opposing). You can use the archived approval of Burmeister's adminship as an example. As you can see it only says "Poll closed as promoted" with a signature, but you can of course use any wording you want (as long as you sign and time stamp it, of course.) This will effectively end the poll and any votes after that timestamp will not be counted for.
2. Then the text in MediaWiki:Recentchangestext needs to be changed so that it doesn't shine with a bright yellow text (in the "Other review tools" submenu) saying that there's an ongoing poll for Danny's adminship every time a users checks out the Recent Changes page (which many users do quite frequently). The wiki code in the "Recentchangestext" file has always been an awful mess – to say the least – but you can use the file history as a guide. Basically the wiki link saying "DannyS712" should be replaced with the unlinked word "none" (in italics) and the yellow background colour removed. Please don't remove the tiny, trailing interpunct ("middle dot"), since it's used as a separator.
3. Then there's the question of the actual promoting, which is done at Special:UserRights/DannyS712. Administrator of course, nothing else. (By the way a bunch of years back I got an email from a newly appointed (non-Wikispecies) admin who needed advice. As his very first administrative task, he had managed to block himself. But we're a bit more experienced than that, right? :-)
4. Lastly the user DannyS712 should be informed about his new user rights. The easiest way to do that is to add the {{Administrator}} template to his talk page.

If all this seems like a lot it's fine be me if you only close the poll (#1 above) and then I can do the rest. But for "democratic" reasons I really shouldn't close the poll and "decide" the result, so I'll be happy if you can do that part. Basically do as much of it as you like, but it's fairly important that it's done in the right order (for example no one should be promoted administrator until the poll is officially stated as closed.) Regards, Tommy Kronkvist, 00:23, 15 July 2021 (UTC).

Re: Administrator poll ended

Thank you for bringing this to my attention. I have closed the poll as promoted and assigned userrights to DannyS712. OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 02:55, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

I approved his addition to the admin mailing list also. Cheers Scott Thomson (Faendalimas) ^talk 15:42, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

Thanks OhanaUnited, good work. As for the admin mailing list, Scott, I was just about to do the same earlier today but you beat me to it. I think DannyS712 will prove an excellent addition to our already good team of admins. –Tommy Kronkvist, 19:40, 15 July 2021 (UTC).

Kamienski barbarous name to edit

Hi, colleague! May I please ask you to help/recommend to do with the editing of the author page [Franciszek Michailow von Kamieński]. This is a barbarous collection of various names from two different languages, Russian and Polish. The correct name is Franciszek Kamieński only. I edited the page, but could not delete the erroneous part of the main title (Michailow von). Today we also asked IPNI and Harvard Index of Botanists to correct their files and delete in addition their phantom 'Th. Kamienski", which is the same person. Anna Pavlova, IFPNI ME IFPNI Staff (talk) 19:32, 18 July 2021 (UTC)

Hi, colleague! Of course you may ask, and of course I will help! :-) I have now moved the Franciszek Michailow von Kamieński page to Franciszek Kamieński, and I think I have moved all the linked pages as well ("Taxa by author" category, templates, etc.) See Pages that link to "Franciszek Michailow von Kamieński" and Pages that link to "Franciszek Kamieński" for verification. Please check all of the author names on the Franciszek Kamieński page so that they are correct. (For reference, the page was also edited by another one of our administrators: please see the page history for details.) Tommy Kronkvist, 23:24, 18 July 2021 (UTC).

Taxa by author categories on redirect pages

According to your recent edit to this page, we don't use taxa by author categories on redirect pages. This is actually the first I've heard anyone say this. I even recall a Village Pump discussion or two where I actually got the impression the opposite was true. I'm thinking of this one in particular mostly: Wikispecies:Village Pump/Archive 52#Scope of "Author taxa" categories revisited​. The main conclusion I got from that at the time was that categories on protonyms were bad, categories on synonyms were okay.

This surprises me because for years now I have been assuming it was okay to apply taxa by author categories to synonym redirects, and I have done so for many myself... could you confirm whether this is really Wikispecies praxis or not that we don't do this? Have I got the wrong end of the stick somehow? Monster Iestyn (talk) 03:35, 19 July 2021 (UTC)

Speedy delete

Why is Desmopuntius foerschi appearing on Speedy Delete. Must be an error surely, as there is no tag on the taxon page? Andyboorman (talk) 19:39, 28 July 2021 (UTC)

Hi @Andyboorman. Yes, this is most likely due to some sort of server cache mixup. What happened was that user Agus Damanik created a template named {{Kottelat, 1982}} but realized that there is already an old template {{Kottelat;1982}} available: same data but different title, and used on the Desmopuntius foerschi page. Hence he marked his new template up for speedy deletion, since it's the newer one and by rule we generally keep the oldest one. On the other hand his new template use the Wikispecies preferred naming scheme for reference templates, while the old one doesn't. Hence instead of merely deleting the new template, I instead moved (i.e. renamed) the old one so that it got the same name as Agus Damanik's new duplicate. In effect this automatically overwrites Agus Damanik's new template (in other words deletes it, in a way). Also I chose not to leave a redirect behind, since the old template only was linked by one other page. (By the way that page is now updated using the new link, so there are zero red links left referring to the old template name.)

This method has several advantages, the most obvious ones being that 1) it's all done in a single maneuver, 2) we get rid of the duplicate, and 3) the original template is renamed to the preferred name while still keeping its entire page history intact. However somehow the call for speedy deletion seems to have stuck somewhere. The speedy deletion tag was included by Damanik in his newly created duplicate template, but it shouldn't have remained after that address/file name was overwritten by the old template. I'll double-check the involved files during the evening, but most likely the problem will disappear automatically as soon as the server catches up. Or else I've missed something... In any case thanks for notifying me. –Tommy Kronkvist, 20:29, 28 July 2021 (UTC).

Thank You so much @Tommy Kronkvist.. At first i have been struggling to find the old template and i am just finally found it after i create a new one. I change my aproach by typing adding word ' template ' in front of it cause by just only typing author and year doesn't give me my desired result. Sorry about the problem. Agus Damanik (talk) 23:45, 28 July 2021 (UTC)

New replacement names

Hello!

For a new replacement name (Nomen novum) is it possible to create a new independent page for each name or it should possibly appear just under in the page of the original taxon name among "synonyms"?

Is there a special section (as for the described taxa and eponyms) to be inserted in an author's page?

Many thanks

Best wishes – Eve Hutch (talk), 10:51, 04 August 2021 (UTC).

Ulothrichales, Ulothrichaceae

Hi, Tommy! Could you please help to correct the current erroneous spellings of Ulotrichales, Ulotrichaceae, which are both incorrectly missing -h- in the names? Should be: Ulothrichales, Ulothrichaceae. Anna Pavlova, IFPNI ME IFPNI Staff (talk) 10:31, 11 August 2021 (UTC)

Hello @IFPNI Staff! I will take care of it, but probably not until later today, and it may take some time before the complete task is done. The reason is that there are (currently) 166 other pages linked to "Ulotrichales" and 72 other pages linked to "Ulotrichaceae" that needs to be changed as well, otherwise all of them will incorrectly link to the old pages. I can make some of the necessary edits in batches (i.e. change several pages at the same time), but must be careful in order to avoid mistakes. Unfortunately our software for doing these kinds of jobs isn't exactly user friendly... :-) I will contact you again when everything is done! Tommy Kronkvist, 03:02, 12 August 2021 (UTC).

Hi @Anna! When was this taxonomy changed? The reason for my question is that if we take all genera and species included in Ulot(h)richaceae's into account, our pages refer to a lot of different references and citations mentioning Ulotrichales or Ulotrichaceae without the "extra h". Could you please show an example of some new sources with the new "h" spelling? That would make me feel a bit more comfortable about changing the pages, since the change will in a way invalidate all of the sources used there… –Tommy Kronkvist, 03:42, 13 August 2021 (UTC).

Hello @Tommy Kronkvist! Tommy! The nomenclature of these algae are not changed, we just met a correctable orthographic mistake in writing Ulotrichales or Ulotrichaceae without -h-. The Code (ICN) requires to derive the suprageneric names from the stem of validly published generic name, viz. Ulothrix Kützing (Flora 16: 517. 7 Sep 1833) [see Index Nominum Genericorum (Plantarum): https://naturalhistory2.si.edu/botany/ing/]. Since the generic name has -h- in the word stem, the correctly derived suprageneric names in the terms of orthography should be Ulothrichales, Ulothrichaceae. Could you help to correct these orthographic errors? I think that we must use in Wiki correct names in spite of widespread orthographic errors. Anna Pavlova, IFPNI ME IFPNI Staff (talk) 08:38, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

This sounds good to me, but since I'm not a botanist I reach out to @Andy Boorman for a comment. Tommy Kronkvist, 02:09, 15 August 2021 (UTC).

@Anna! Tommy, Anna is correct if the suprageneric names are indeed based on Ulothrix. As far as I am aware these orthographic errors generally can be autocorrected once encountered Art 60. Unfortunately Algaebase uses Ulotrichaceae so if this is an error then it will cascade from there I assume. I am not an expert on Algae so can only comment on generalities. By the way this source has a different family circumscription compared to WS, but please seek opinions from @Thiotrix: and @Lichenes: editors on the pages. Hope this helps Andyboorman (talk) 07:35, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

Yes, the suprageneric names are based on Ulothrix Kützing (1833). Nearly all current sources seem to use the names Ulotrichales and Ulotrichaceae, not only databases like Algaebase and WoRMS, but also my scientific literature on algae. Only Pascher (1914) seems to have used the spelling with th [6]. So I guessed, that Ulotrichales and Ulotrichaceae without th could be some sort of conserved names. Now I haved looked in the Code for these names, but they are not mentioned, with neither spelling. The correct form should be with th, but I still hesitate to change hundreds of pages here in Wikispecies. Maybe we should send a mail to Michael Guiry from Algaebase and ask him about his opionion? --Thiotrix (talk) 16:06, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

┌─────────────────────────┘Algaebase says "Family names formed from genera with the ending "-thrix" (derived from Greek "trichos") are to be formed "-trichaceae" (see Silva 1980: 18)." [7] This refers to

• Silva, P.C. 1980. Names of classes and families of living algae: with special reference to their use in the Index Nominum Genericorum (Plantarum). Regnum Vegetabile 103. 156 pp. ISBN 90-313-0410-7. Reference page. .

So is seems the spelling without th is ok and we should leave Ulotrichaceae and Ulotrichales as they are. --Thiotrix (talk) 07:18, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

Jaczewski barbarous name to edit

Hi, Tommy! May I please ask you to help with the editing of the author page [Arthur Louis Arthurovic de Jaczewski]. This is a barbarous combination of various names from two different languages, Russian and French. The correct name is Artur Arturovich Jaczewski only [transliteration from Russian]. When he was lived in Switzerland, he used the French spelling of his original Polish name Jaczewski, Arthur Louis de (French), Jaczewski, Artur (Polish). I edited the page, but could not edit the erroneous part of the main title (Arthur Louis Arthurovic de). We also asked IPNI and Harvard Index of Botanists to correct their files; they retained Jaczewski, Arthur Arthurovič. However, in modern literature, we do not use anymore hatcheks in the spelling following new ISO standard of transliteration of Russian names, so my form is preferable. Anna Pavlova, IFPNI ME IFPNI Staff (talk) 09:15, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

Hello again Anna!

I've now moved the page to Artur Arturovich Jaczewski and also changed the corresponding links on the 41 other pages that refers to it, for example Category:Artur Arturovich Jaczewski taxa and all the taxa listed there. Please check the Jaczewski page and see if it's correct, or needs to be changed further (in case I misunderstood you about the Polish, French etc. names.) Kind regards, Tommy Kronkvist, 04:21, 15 August 2021 (UTC).

Hello @Tommy Kronkvist: Tommy! I made small editing on the French spelling, and all the rest is the best! Thank you for editing! Anna IFPNI Staff (talk) 09:19, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

┌─────────────────────────┘ You're welcome, Anna. There's a lot of names on the Jaczewski page now, but it looks alright and above all correct.

As a side note you don't have to add a "Reply to"-template when writing to me on my talk page, since new messages to our own talk pages automatically lights up the "bell icon" (ex. ) to the right of our user name, at the top of the screen. Clicking that icon will automatically show the (new) alert messages, with links to the pages they concern. The "Reply to"-template is good to use if you want to notify me in a message on any other talk page than my own, for instance if you write to me on your own talk page, on another user's talk page, or at the Village Pump or the Administrators' Noticeboard.

Also, I see that you add a colon (:) when replying to messages. That's good, but please add one extra colon for every new reply. That adds some extra spacing in front of every new message, which separates them and makes it easier for everyone to follow the discussion. Example code:

New message from person A.
: Reply number 1 from person B.
:: Reply number 2 from person A.
::: Reply number 3 from person B.
:::: Reply number 4 from person A. [etc…]

…which will look like this:

New message from person A.

Reply number 1 from person B.

Reply number 2 from person A.

Reply number 3 from person B.

Reply number 4 from person A. [etc…]

It's not really a rule or policy, but after five or six colons we usual start with zero colons again: otherwise the messages will be hard to read since the text starts too far off to the right, for example

::::::::::::::::::::::::: …like this, which looks

…like this. :-)

By the way the bullet symbol (*) works in the same way as the colon. We normally don't use it on talk pages, but it can be useful for lists on taxon- and author pages, for example

* Genus
** Species
** Species
* Genus
** Species
** Species
*** Subspecies
** Species

…which will look like:

• Genus
  • Species
  • Species
• Genus
  • Species
  • Species
    • Subspecies
  • Species

–Tommy Kronkvist, 10:08, 15 August 2021 (UTC).

Ivanova names to edit

Hi, Tommy! May I please ask you to help with the editing of the author pages of [Ivanova]: Klavdia Vasilievna Ivanova & Maya Mikhailovna Ivanova, which were previously created as K.V. Ivanova and M.M. Ivanova. Should be delete the latter pages and create new pages with full names, or to do something else? Anna Pavlova, IFPNI ME IFPNI Staff (talk) 12:31, 21 August 2021 (UTC)

Hello Anna! I've now moved the old pages to Klavdia Vasilievna Ivanova and Maya Mikhailovna Ivanova, respectively. I've also changed all the related links (for example the link on Myosotis nemorosa and the Category:Klavdia Vasilievna Ivanova taxa category) so that they now points to the new addresses. The old K.V. Ivanova and M.M. Ivanova pages remain but now automatically redirects to the new page names. It's not recommended to use them but we keep them if someone choses to use them anyway.

I've also updated the Wikidata items accordingly; they can be found here: Q21516831 & Q33677288. Kind regards, Tommy Kronkvist, 06:55, 22 August 2021 (UTC).

Image template

Hello Tommy. I have a real issue with adding {{Image}} to pages other than species. The vast majority of images called are not labelled and so the template adds the taxon page name by default. This is, in my opinion, not helpful and in fact can be very confusing, particularly when dealing with large tribes, families, non-monotypic genera and so on. Sometimes I trace the origin of the image and label it, if it of high quality and highly representative. However, most often I just delete the template. I hope you do not feel that this is disruptive, OK its a bit pedantic! Best regards Andyboorman (talk) 07:59, 5 September 2021 (UTC)

Hello Andy. I don't find your edits disruptive at all – quite the contrary. In theory I fully agree with you, however in practice I sometimes forget to follow your example. But I too try to only add "empty" {{Image}} templates (i.e. without parameters) to (sub)species pages and author pages. For higher taxa I tend to always specify the actual media file and add a caption, as I did for example here. That in effect means that no picture-related data at all is fetched from Wikidata, but the {{Image}} template itself remains and can easily be updated by bot in the future, if and when Wikidata gets all their image labels sorted. But sometimes I forget, and sometimes there are (bot- or JWB related) tech issues that makes it difficult. To conclude: keep up the good work! It's much appreciated. And no, I don't find it particularly pedantic. Best regards, Tommy Kronkvist, 14:08, 5 September 2021 (UTC).

Thanks Tommy. I will plug on dealing with broken redirects that I left behind during my earlier edits! Andyboorman (talk) 07:51, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

Empty headers

Hello Tpmmy,Thanks for helpful info concerning "empty headers" but why did you insert header "Primary References" when there is no info under that header? Kind regards,Nytexcome (talk) 16:42, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

Protection of MediaWiki: pages

...is unneeded, since they are protected by the software automatically - only users with editinterface can change them anyway, see Special:ListGroupRights - I removed the protection from MediaWiki:Recentchangestext. --DannyS712 (talk) 02:51, 7 September 2021 (UTC)

Thanks,DannyS712, I did not know that. –Tommy Kronkvist, 10:50, 8 September 2021 (UTC).

Repositories with the same combination of letters

Hello, a quick question: is there a preferred way of disambiguating repository links? The holotype of Mesodermochelys undulatus is in the Hobetsu Museum ("Institutional Abbreviation: HMG"), but HMG is already occuped by the Hunterian Museum, Glasgow. Would HMG (Japan) or Hobetsu Museum or something else again be better? Thank you, Maculosae tegmine lyncis (talk) 13:08, 13 September 2021 (UTC)

Hello Maculosae tegmine lyncis. No, unfortunately we don't have a set system for disambiguating repository links/pages. It's been discussed several times before, but the talks have sort of dried out without the community coming to any conclusion. I'll copy this discussion to the Village Pump, in order to again raise this question to the community as a whole. Please continue the discussion there. Regards, Tommy Kronkvist, 20:47, 13 September 2021 (UTC)

The above discussion was copied to Wikispecies:Village Pump#Repositories with the same combination of letters. Please continue the discussion there.

Disambiguation pages

Hello, Tommy! Could you please help me to create disambiguation pages for two taxa: fossil plant Auerbachia and fossil animal Roemeria Milne-Edwards & Haime 1851, Arch. Mus. Hist. nat. Paris, 5, 152. 1851. Now these names are reserved for homonymic names in use. Anna Pavlova IFPNI Staff (talk) 14:15, 22 September 2021 (UTC)

Dear Anna. The new pages will most likely be named Auerbachia (Meglitsch) and Auerbachia (Trautschold) plus Roemeria (Milne-Edwards & Haime) and Roemeria (Medikus), respectively. The Auerbachia and Roemeria pages will of course remain, but be changed into disambiguation pages. All of that will have to wait until tomorrow though, because today turned out to be a busy day. Kind regards, Tommy Kronkvist, 15:25, 22 September 2021 (UTC).

By the way are you aware that we have a whole category listing pages with homonyms? Can be useful sometimes. –Tommy Kronkvist, 15:32, 22 September 2021 (UTC).

Dear @Tommy Kronkvist: Tommy, no, I overlooked this interesting list of homonyms, thank you for it. I just would like to create a page similar to Botryopteris, but could not find a simple way. Maybe you could show how is better to proceed, Anna Pavlova IFPNI Staff (talk) 16:04, 22 September 2021 (UTC)

Dear Anna Pavlova, Auerbachia is now done. Is it okay or do you find any errors? I now have a doctor's appointment, but will continue with Roemeria when I return to the office later today. –Tommy Kronkvist, 07:31, 24 September 2021 (UTC).

The Roemeria now also done. –Tommy Kronkvist, 02:32, 25 September 2021 (UTC).

Dear @Tommy Kronkvist: Tommy, thank you! I just returned back to these edits. In addition, I have the same problem with the fossil-genus of conifers Glyptolepis. Please help, Anna IFPNI Staff (talk) 11:58, 4 October 2021 (UTC)

BPH links

Hello! I would like also to call your attention to the world database of the serials in use in systematic botany: BPH. BPH was known in print. They issued a standard abbreviation of the scientific serial for the nomenclatural citations in taxonomic botany. The database includes a large number of natural history serials with their standard abbreviation, years of publication, corporate body, place of publication, references to ISSN (if any), and ULS (if any). I think that the creation of a template BPH is desired for WikiSpecies pages describing serials, especially lacking ISSN. Anna Pavlova IFPNI Staff (talk) 14:15, 22 September 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for the warm welcome – and a first question

Hi Tommy Kronkvist, thx for the welcoming text. And certainly there is a first question I have: I have a German userpage w:de:Benutzer:Andreas von Stackelberg, an English one w:user:Andreas von Stackelberg, one at commons https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Andreas_von_Stackelberg and the one here on wikispecies user:Andreas von Stackelberg - how can I address the last two in short (that is: without starting at https:) from anywhere in wikipedia (for example from German wikipedia)? Thank you!Andreas von Stackelberg (talk) 18:28, 25 September 2021 (UTC)

Sorry - solved. German w:de:Benutzer:Andreas von Stackelberg, English w:User:Andreas von Stackelberg, commons commons:user:Andreas von Stackelberg and at wikispecies I am user:Andreas von Stackelberg - but from anywhere else you should put species: in front of that.  Done Andreas von Stackelberg (talk) 18:41, 25 September 2021 (UTC)

Hello Andreas von Stackelberg,

and yes, the different "prefixes" of the Wikimedia sister-projects is the way to go. If you would like a cleaner look you can use so called "piped links" with an "|" symbol ("vertical bar" a.k.a. "pipe", oder "Senkrechter Strich"). Then only the text after the pipe will be visible. For example [[commons:user:Andreas von Stackelberg|Andreas von Stackelberg]] which will render as "Andreas von Stackelberg". It will still link to your user page at Wikimedia Commons, but without cluttering the link with the wiki-specific code. Best regards, Tommy Kronkvist, 19:14, 25 September 2021 (UTC).

Incomplete authors data

Hi Tommy, I compiled a shortlist of authors lacking full names: Alexander V. Antropov, F.D. Mordukhai-Boltovskoi, L.B. Serdyukova, V.P. Nevsky, Ivan V. Zmitrovich, P.A. Gandilyan, Elena E. Becker-Migdisova; Nikolai Alexsandrovich Naumov vz. Nikolai Alexandrovich Naumov (orthographic error), and incomplete name Alexandr Rasnitsyn. I made alterations with data about authors, but could not rename pages. Please help, Anna IFPNI Staff (talk) 23:25, 3 October 2021 (UTC)

Hi Anna, I've corrected the Nikolai Alexandrovich Naumov and Lyudmila Borisovna Serdyukova. By the way, is Serdyukova of Russian, Georgian, or Georgian-Russian nationality? ("Soviet" is not really considered a "nationality", as such. In the same way "British" is not a nationality either – at least not in the true sense of the meaning – since English, Scots, Welsh and Irish are separate nationalities.)

I will take care of the other author pages (as well as Glyptolepis) tomorrow or on Wednesday. Right now I'm busy preparing documents, translations etc. for the upcoming annual general meeting of Wikimedia Sverige, the national Swedish charity and Swedish chapter of the Wikimedia movement (i.e. WMSE, often called "Wikimedia Sweden"). That meeting will be held at October 10, and I would like to be prepared for it as soon as possible.

I've copied the above author names into a table below. As you know, all of our Wikispecies' links to existing pages are blue, and links to non-existing pages are red. In "my" Wikispecies it looks the same, but I have made an alteration to my user preference settings. Links to non-existing pages are still red, but on my screen only existing and direct links are blue; i.e. links that does not link via a redirection page. All redirected pages are instead coloured green. Because of this I can easily and immediately see whether a link is good (i.e. blue) or needs to be corrected (i.e. is green). Listing the different links side-by-side in a table therefore makes it easier when I'm about to rename pages.

Links to be redirected	Target links
Alexander V. Antropov	Alexander Valentinovich Antropov
Alexandr Rasnitsyn	Alexander Pavlovich Rasnitsyn
Elena E. Becker-Migdisova	Elena Ernestovna Becker-Migdisova
F.D. Mordukhai-Boltovskoi	Filaret Dmitrievich Mordukhai-Boltovskoi
Ivan V. Zmitrovich	Ivan Viktorovich Zmitrovich
L.B. Serdyukova	Lyudmila Borisovna Serdyukova
Nikolai Alexsandrovich Naumov	Nikolai Alexandrovich Naumov
P.A. Gandilyan	Papin Artashesovich Gandiljan
V.P. Nevsky	Valerian Pavlovich Nevsky

As I said I will start the renaming the remaining seven in a day or two. In the meantime, feel free to add more author's if you like to! Preferably add them to the table, but you can add them anyway you like, really. Tommy Kronkvist, 17:17, 4 October 2021 (UTC).

Hi @Tommy Kronkvist:, thank you for support and help with the renaming of pages. All are good except for two persons:

• Alexandr Rasnitsyn || Alexander Pavlovich Rasnitsyn
• P.A. Gandilyan || Papin Artashesovich Gandiljan

Alexander is a more usual name; as for Gandilyan, we discussed with IPNI editors and concluded that it is more appropriate to have this author is Gandiljan. I shall be much indebted to you if you could process in addition with these two problematic names.

As for nationality, in the times of the Soviet Union, all scientists were Soviet, irrespective of their exact nationality (Russian, Israeli, Georgian, etc), and this was used even in official dictionaries and encyclopedias (Soviet botanist Naumov), etc. When I bracketed (Soviet), I would like to notice that Russian or Georgian nationality was of minor official importance in the times of his life in the USSR. Galina Vasilievna Serdyukova is a Georgian woman, born in Tiflis (then Russian Empire in 1906), but had a Russian name, and died in the Soviet Union. It is difficult to assign her nationality to Georgian, so I decided to mark her as Russian (Soviet, Georgian). In any way, I followed the then official encyclopedias of the Soviet Union. Anna IFPNI Staff (talk) 23:04, 4 October 2021 (UTC)

Dear Anna, as for "Serdyukova" I was mainly referring to Lyudmila Borisovna Serdyukova (since she is the one you mentioned in your request per October 3ʳᵈ), rather than Galina Vasilievna Serdyukova. I see now that you have named them both as "Russian (Soviet, Georgian)", but I was thinking that Lyudmila Borisovna Serdyukova perhaps would be considered a bit "less" Soviet (since she was born in 1973 and is still alive) than Galina Vasilievna Serdyukova (who died in 1962 as a Soviet citizen). However, here in Wikispecies it's okay as it is now, since all of the possible "nationalities" are mentioned and neither of them are outright wrong. We mainly use that information when we need to disambiguate between similarly named authors, and there aren't very many biologist with the same name as "our" two Serdyukova's who live(d) during the same period of time.

However we need also to consider Wikidata and there we shouldn't list nationalities, but citizenship. Hence, do you happen to know whether Lyudmila Borisovna Serdyukova today is a Russian or Georgian citizen (or something else altogether)? Also, I've created the Wikidata item Q108802764 in correspondence with the Wikispecies Galina Vasilievna Serdyukova page you created two days ago. Do you have any references for her year of birth/death and perhaps also place of birth/death?

Lastly, I will changed the "Alexander Pavlovich Rasnitsyn" and "Papin Artashesovich Gandiljan" pages in accordance with your and IPNI's recommendations. –Tommy Kronkvist, 00:17, 5 October 2021 (UTC).

Dear Anna, please excuse the delay, but now finally all of the author pages in the above table have been moved to their new names. Kindly, Tommy Kronkvist, 11:58, 15 October 2021 (UTC).

Dear Tommy, thank you, I will add soon some missing info to these authors. At present I have a small list of newly revised authors, for which your possible magic help with page renamings is necessary: R.A. Udachin, M.N. Semenova, Nina G. Klochkova, Marina Ja. Orlova-Bienkowskaja, I.M. Vassiljeva, G.V. Eremin, A. Orlova, Anna A. Filatenko, Evgeny Maleev. Anna IFPNI Staff (talk) 10:06, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

Wikidata & synonyms etc

Hello; perhaps I should raise this at the Village Pump, but anyway; I have just moved the page Oceanodroma matsudairae to Hydrobates matsudairae. There are wikidata items Q785281 for the former and Q28122588 for the latter; the wikispecies link is automatically updated with the page move, so now the former item "Oceanodroma matsudairae" has a link to the wikispecies page Hydrobates matsudariae, while the "Hydrobates matsudairae" item still has no site links; I considered removing the wikispecies link before the page move, but were one purist, and move the link to the Hydrobates matsudairae page to that item, it would be stranded without links to other projects. In the same way that there is a Commons category property, so one and the same Commons category can be added to more than one wikidata item, should there be the same for wikispecies pages - this one page is relevant also for the protonym item Q28122592. I take it there is no way to connect redirects to wikidata items. I guess this semi-relates to the scenario where some language wikipedias, where there is a family with but one genus, create the page with the family name and others with the genus name; sometimes you see a link added to the "wrong" item, so that the page in question can link up with other language wikipedia pages. Thanks, Maculosae tegmine lyncis (talk) 15:50, 7 October 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for the notification, Maculosae tegmine lyncis. This is an unfortunate but very common problem, mainly deriving from the fact that Wikipedia pages are founded on taxon names, whereas the names of Wikispecies pages are based on taxon. A slight but important divergence, and the majority of Wikipedia users doesn't know the difference (since they're not taxonomists). This also frequently leads to Wikipedia users wanting to merge Wikidata items for different taxa (for example merging the Oceanodroma matsudairae and Hydrobates matsudairae Wikidata items into one), since according to them "it is the same species". While this may be true they are still two different taxa, and this is what many Wikipedia users fail to understand.

I've made some small changes to Q785281 and Q28122588 as well as to Q28122592, but will have to wait until the weekend before doing any major corrections. However I'm not sure I'll be able to do a very good job of it, since the taxonomy surrounding both Oceanodroma matsudairae and Hydrobates matsudairae seems questionable. Best regards, Tommy Kronkvist, 09:40, 8 October 2021 (UTC).

Thank you—so best practice, before a taxonomy update-related page move, would seem to be to remove the wikidata wikispecies link, re-adding it to the new taxon/name, and wait for the wikipedias (and their wikidata links) to catch up as it were; I could manually add the old-style square brackets-based links from wikispecies to eg enwiki, but I think they are one-way (or, were time infinite, update/move all the related wikipedia pages & links); so the practical result of the/a taxonomic update being implemented on wikispecies would be for the wikispecies pages, eg here a dozen or more linked-in Oceanodroma pages, becoming unlinked (apart from for anyone querying wikidata direct) in this instance Hydrobates pages; I'm tempted to revert your (I guess correct) correction as that doesn't seem beneficial, not least as one way for the wikipedias to find out there is an update in the first place would be (by chancing) to look at the connected wikispecies page (though in this case enwiki jumped the gun), Maculosae tegmine lyncis (talk) 10:35, 8 October 2021 (UTC)

@Maculosae tegmine lyncis: I'm rather pressed for time at the moment, but here's a short answer until I have time to answer you properly.

1. Using the old-style square bracket links is a deprecated system, and shouldn't be used at all. Instead we should use Wikidata: that's what it's for. (Also yes:, the old system is one-way only).
2. The most important thing is that the information is correct. Whether an edit is beneficial or not is of secondary importance. It is not okay to change one correct page, simply as to comply with (in this case) 26 other pages that are wrong. The only right thing is instead to edit the other 26 inaccurate pages so that they are also correct. That's a lot of work, yes, but we shouldn't make improper changes. In other words we shouldn't lie. If we do, we might as well simply call all animals "Animalia" and all plants "Plantae", and skip the lower ranked taxon names. There's no point in having a nomenclature if we don't bother to name the taxa correctly.
3. If you look at Q785281 and Q28122588 you'll see that both refer to the other taxon as being a synonym of the other. That's of course incorrect, since from a taxonomical point of view only one of them is a synonym (P1420). The other should instead be marked as "synonym of" (P694). This is another rather common error made by many wikipedians since they frequently only use the word "synonym" in the general, semantical way (e.g. big = large), rather than as a property within the field of taxonomy.

–Tommy Kronkvist, 12:08, 8 October 2021 (UTC).

Hello again, I was thinking about a software feature request, relating to the multiple wikidata items & links issue. My understanding is that, if there is an old-style (and deprecated) interlanguage/wiki link such as [​[en]​] on a page, then this is ignored when the software builds the list of links in the left margin, but made use of if there is no link to enwiki on the wikidata item to which the wikispecies page is linked. What might be good would be instead to be able to add an equivalent to [​[en]​], but specifying a wikidata item, or multiple items, instead (eg for each combination); then, the software could look at the links on that/those item(s) and add them to the list in the left margin; I don't know if there are any obvious issues with this, thank you, Maculosae tegmine lyncis (talk) 09:34, 4 March 2022 (UTC)

BHL template

Hi! Please don't replace BHL template from reference templates! BHL is a valid template for use in the references templates, there is no consensus to replace it or not to use it. Regards, Burmeister (talk) 00:17, 14 October 2021 (UTC)

Hi Burmeister, and thanks for your note! Okay, I'll comply with that.

However when there's time I think we should look over the {{BHL}}, {{BHL item}} and {{BHL page}} templates, since in some instances they no longer work as well as they used to. For example some of the biodiversitylibrary.org/bibliography... and biodiversitylibrary.org/creator... links have URLs that our templates can't handle well. I can't give a good example right now (it's 4:34 in the morning here and I'm still awake… :-) but if I recall correctly it has got to do with their use of characters such as =!? and # etc. (i.e. URI queries and URI fragments). They are not used very often in BHL URLs and sometimes BHL present a DOI that can be used as an alternative, but we should try to find a way to easily work around the problems when no DOI alternative is available. The problem is comparable to when we use certain characters in Wikipedia links in the Wikimedia Commons "information" template, which messes up the template/wiki code. As you know, in Commons that can be solved by adding an "invisible" "1=" code string, for example "{{Information|description=pt-br|1=Tachyglossus aculeatus no Zoológico de Adelaide}}". That particular solution probably wont help us though, since I don't think the problem with BHL links is primarily related to wiki code.

–Kind regards, Tommy Kronkvist 02:34, 14 October 2021 (UTC).

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The above discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this archive.