Wikispecies talk:Localization/Archive 2022

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Fix Japanese translation

Could you replace following messages?

There are better translations. --Marine-Bluetalkcontribs 13:50, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

 Done. Sorry for the delay. –Tommy Kronkvist (talk)‚ 17:14, 10 December 2021 (UTC).
@Tommy Kronkvist and Marine-Blue: Actually, translation of MediaWiki:Vernacular names/ja was replaced by ‘般名’: the first letter of ‘一般名’ is missing. --Hino Kitsune/火乃狐 (talk) 21:37, 27 December 2021 (UTC)
@火乃狐: Yes check.svg Resolved. –Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 14:52, 29 December 2021 (UTC).
Here are some missing items (and a few improvements), thank you, Maculosae tegmine lyncis (talk) 10:47, 4 March 2022 (UTC)
Extended content
 Done. Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 11:05, 4 March 2022 (UTC).

New items

Hello, please could we localize the following (there are good precedents in taxonomic literature per google (and I simply can't abide writing "overview of familiae" - as a genitive plural it has to be familiarum...)), thank you, Maculosae tegmine lyncis (talk) 12:44, 2 March 2022 (UTC)

@Maculosae tegmine lyncis: Is this better: Wikispecies:Localization? (You may need to clik the "purge link" near the top of the page in order to show the most recent updates.) –Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 10:41, 4 March 2022 (UTC).
Thank you (although on Artiodactyla the result perhaps seems even more to be unable to make up its mind as to which language it should be in; maybe the default position should be to display "conspectus", as the rest of the taxonavigation section is effectively in Latin), Maculosae tegmine lyncis (talk) 11:00, 4 March 2022 (UTC)
 Done. Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 11:12, 4 March 2022 (UTC).

Please could we localize, for use in the prospective {{Types by repository}} (based on {{Taxa by author}})

  • Types by repository [the text you will see: List of type specimens reposed in $1 [as at Category:BMNH]]

Maculosae tegmine lyncis (talk) 13:50, 6 March 2022 (UTC)

The phrase "Types by repository" is now added to the localization database. –Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 08:55, 7 March 2022 (UTC).
Thank you; I'm not quite sure what the English should be for this one, but the Japanse would be (using the same $1 as in MediaWiki:Taxa by author/ja to switch the order, where $1 is the repository name; it might be $2, if that's how $ works here): (Template:Sandbox1, Sandbox)
Thank you, Maculosae tegmine lyncis (talk) 09:20, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

I just stumbled upon {{Int Continent}} and {{Int Country}} (which together have nearly five hundred pages linking to them) — would it be better to handle these through the int method overleaf? Thank you, Maculosae tegmine lyncis (talk) 09:20, 25 March 2022 (UTC)


New items in Japanese

  • MediaWiki:Types by repository/ja $2所蔵タイプ標本の一覧 [(or) $3の$2所蔵タイプ標本の一覧 ($3 would make more sense if we localized country names); I don't know if {{#if:3... is needed, or whether it will simply ignore $3 if there is no $3, Maculosae tegmine lyncis (talk) 10:57, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

Also, for use in {{Eponyms of person}} (en: List of eponyms of),

Thank you, Maculosae tegmine lyncis (talk) 10:49, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

(The updated) {{Date}} allows for the internationalization of dates, but currently only seems to internationalize the month field. Where is the rest handled? Otherwise, we could suffix (and possibly prefix) the date parameters with int:Date-day int:Date-month [but we already have this functionality through int:March etc] and int:Date-year (and, if prefixing is required for other languages, similar, but int:Date-day2 etc). If you look at eg {{Díaz-Berenguer et al., 2018}}, int:March (borrowed from someone else's template) is internalizing the month, but the ja display is 23 3月 2018 which is not quite right, since it should be 23日 3月 2018年 . We can't use int:day (which already exists), because English would simply have 23 March 2018 not 23day March 2018. In time we might want something like the following:
Thank you, Maculosae tegmine lyncis (talk) 15:01, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

────────── When referring to code related to the public sandboxes, please specify which exact revision of a sandbox or "sandbox template" you mean, for example Template:Sandbox2&type=revision&diff=8696358&oldid=8696353 or [1] (two different examples). Occasionally these pages are very frequently changed and/or purged, and without an exact timestamp it's hard to know which version of the code you refer to.

Also, please always add your signature to the end of your edits, i.e. not like this where you instead added your signature to the middle of the message. If the signature isn't placed at the very bottom of the message it may be difficult for subsequent readers to know which specific user made each specific edit; especially if there are more than two users participating in the discussion. (I've moved your above signatures accordingly.) –Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 03:26, 8 March 2022 (UTC).

I have linked to the sandbox revisions and shall do so, thanks, Maculosae tegmine lyncis (talk) 08:20, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

For development purposes and maximum tool functionality in relation to the RfC, please could we have a new item:

  • MediaWiki:VN tooltip/en: This vernacular name (VN) displays from the list below the entry in the language selected from the ULS (Universal Language Selector — above and to the left, English (en) the default); to enable VN in further languages, please add to VN section below (max 1 VN per language); to display no VN here, please select Latin (la) from the ULS. [Please help translate this message.]

Thank you, Maculosae tegmine lyncis (talk) 15:58, 18 March 2022 (UTC)

  • MediaWiki:No nomenclatural acts/ja: 命名法的行為なし (I couldn't find examples of this exact phrase, but if/as 命名法的行為 are nomenclatural acts, this would be no nomenclatural acts (and there are plenty of examples of ....行為なし (some other kind of acts)nashi (ie no xxx acts)); thanks, Maculosae tegmine lyncis (talk) 10:09, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

─────────────────────────  Done, except for VN tooltip/en. About Date-year and Date-day not being created in English: Yes, that's true. The reason is that some of the most common values are hard-coded into the global Wikimedia server software used by all of the sister projects (Wikipedia, Wikisource, Commons etc.) and therefore shouldn't be duplicated manually into Wikispecies local database. I think this also includes the most common non-English Latin script languages such as Spanish, German, French etc., but probably not any of the non-Latin script writing systems such as Japanese, Hebrew or Arabic. The reason for this shortcoming is due to a technical matter and has nothing to do with the actual languages themselves. –Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 18:58, 24 March 2022 (UTC).

Thank you; would it please be possible also to:
  • Create the master entry overleaf for Eponyms by person (displaying in English "List of eponyms of $1." (Japanese doesn't use "." (but does have "。")); if we want to have the full stop, we need this to be localized), so that we can start to use this function
  • Add the "." to all the non-Japanese localized versions overleaf of taxa by author, so that we can remove it from {{taxa by author}} on simlar ./。-related grounds (the fr version overleaf does not have $1, which perhaps should be added)
  • Add the English "List of type specimens reposed in $2, $3." (wording as at Category:BMNH]) to the types by repository entry overleaf, similarly so we can start to use this function. Actually, this is problematic — perhaps we should axe $3, the country, from {{types by repository}}, after all, the repository on the category page is linked to the repository page, where details of location etc are found — because $3 is optional, which means we might not always want the comma in this $2, $3 (and we can't include it in the template (unless we add a conditional based on the user's language) because ja would reverse the order as above (and has "、" instead of ","...)) Similarly, when using the taxa by author template, information on the authority page such as dates, nationality, institution(s) are included only on the authority page itself, not also on the category page. So actually, please include "List of type specimens reposed in $2.", and I'll then amend the template.
  • Add the other new items (accessed on and Date-day, Date-year) overleaf so these also might be used
Thank you, Maculosae tegmine lyncis (talk) 22:56, 24 March 2022 (UTC)
Unfortunately I'll be offline a bit more than usual the next several couple of days. (Mr. Kronkvist Sr. is at the hospital (again…) and I need to go out of town to visit him.) Perhaps one of our other translation administrators 1234qwer1234qwer4AlvaroMolinaAmeisenigelChrumpsCreativeCDannyS712KaganerKoavfOmda4wadySamuele2002 Stïnger or יונה בנדלאק can have a look at this? (Also, when there's time I really should fix the {{Ping group}} template so that it can handle more than a maximum of ten user names, but that's another matter, for an other talk page. :-) Tommy Kronkvist (talk) 09:10, 26 March 2022 (UTC).
About improving MediaWiki:Taxa by author/* - this is needs of regular admin rights. @Koavf:.
But i'm propose convert both templates {{taxa by author}}, {{Types by repository}} and {{Eponyms of person}} etc. into "autotranslate" mode, like {{Disputed}} - without using custom MediaWiki messages. If this is approved, i'm will do it. Kaganer (talk) 22:21, 26 March 2022 (UTC)
@Kaganer: Okay, what is needed? Why do we need {{dynamite|title=, rather than {{int:? —Justin (koavf)TCM 00:34, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
I don't quite follow, perhaps because I couldn't find any localized versions of {{Disputed}} (if there are any); is the suggestion that, while using int:... is quite efficient and means just translating one or a couple of/few words, the advantage of this method is that, rather than ja speakers, when setting up an author page, having to use the en template {{Taxa by author}}, they can use the ja template {{いろは}} instead, and that the two are somehow linked? While this would have some advantages, it could lead to having lots of templates; I would have thought if {{Taxa by author}} works and users of all languages can see the effect of its use localized in theirs, then even were it called {{いろは}} etc, that wouldn't make a huge amount of difference. But presumably this could be useful if there is an example where the English is somehow really difficult to localize via the int: method — or maybe I have misunderstood..., thanks, Maculosae tegmine lyncis (talk) 06:00, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
@Maculosae tegmine lyncis, no need to try to use localized template names, this is not Wikipedia. Here you always use the same template name, but this is displayed in the language that matches your interface language (if available). Kaganer (talk) 11:25, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
Oh, actually I have just limited the search to templates, and found {{Disputed/i18n/ja}}, so that's not what it is doing. Is the idea that the int: method is centralized and requires an administrator or equivalent to make the change, while this method is/does not? thanks, Maculosae tegmine lyncis (talk) 06:00, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
Sure. You may don't search, but just click by link in the documentation of the {{Disputed}} ;) Kaganer (talk) 11:28, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
@Koavf, "int:" is system function for calling system messages. Using many set of custom messages in the WikiSpecies - is "hack", that is very difficult for supporting (IMHO).
By common way, all these messages should be extracted into special MediaWiki extension, for their translation through translatewiki:. Ping @Amire80:.
The proposed scheme allows you to work only in the template namespace using the Translate Extension (with the same result for the end user). Kaganer (talk) 11:20, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
Okay, I'm not sure about all the hcard spans, etc. If you can post the code and know that it works, I can copy/paste it. I'm hesitant to tool around with a high-use template for features where it's not apparent to me that it's an improvement. —Justin (koavf)TCM 15:27, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
{{Eponyms of person}} currently is not an autotranslated (by any methods). Convertation and localization of this will be useful in any case. Kaganer (talk) 15:59, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
 Done
@Koavf, @Maculosae tegmine lyncis - please add your translations and look result in the any sub-categories for the Category:Eponyms. Kaganer (talk) 16:27, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
@Kaganer — thank you: I have added a ja translation and checked (the eponyms of) Isao Ijima, and it is displaying just as I would expect/it should. I might go ahead and add this functionality to {{Types by repository}}, since this is a new template only in use on a couple of pages, and in part so I can become more familiar with how this works; before we update {{Taxa by author}} in this way, should we wait for the return of @Tommy Kronkvist (who has been most active on the Wikispecies:Localization page in my short experience here), in case he has any other thoughts on the subject? many thanks, Maculosae tegmine lyncis (talk) 16:53, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
I'm also translate admin, and i'm will add this. Kaganer (talk) 22:13, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

──────────────────── Looks good to me. Also: thanks Kaganer. –Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 02:10, 28 March 2022 (UTC).

@Tommy Kronkvist, @Maculosae tegmine lyncis, @Koavf:
Template {{Taxa by author}} is also  converted - see documentation update and please add translations.
----
Hint: i'm thinked, that mostly names of institution, countries, and people's may be succesfully localized through linked Wikidata items.
E.g. for MPCN:
This is only draft codes. Localized labels may be returned with a hyperlinks to Wikipedia or Wikidata, or without links.
I'm create Module:Wikidata/Sandbox and {{Wikidata/Sandbox}} (as example for display country name), but this still not tested for any other cases or backward compatibility. Kaganer (talk) 02:44, 28 March 2022 (UTC)
This is some great work. Thanks. —Justin (koavf)TCM 05:17, 28 March 2022 (UTC)
@Maculosae tegmine lyncis, I seen your updates in the {{Types by repository}}, but please consider this as temporary solution (as modeling stage).
IMHO, addition params #4 and #5 for entityId is unneeded. All pages for repositories should be linked with the relevant Wikidata items. If relevant item is not exist, we should create this. Maybe some items will be duplicates - this is not a big deal, this may be merged transparently in future. All entityId don't filling directly - these may be gathered from the linked Wikidata Item. Kaganer (talk) 21:42, 28 March 2022 (UTC)
Certainly, shall do! [params #4 and #5 now removed, Maculosae tegmine lyncis (talk) 15:30, 29 March 2022 (UTC)] That said, from discussions at the Village Pump etc it seems not everyone is happy to rely on the accuracy of wikidata, and some (probably me too) would prefer to minimize the extent wikidata is drawn on, if there are other good alternatives. For instance, when localizing the place name Argentina wikidata:Q414, connected via P17 on wikidata:Q84520943, I know the English Argentina is correct, while it is possible that the wikidata label might have a typo in it, or be temporarily vandalized without showing up on my watch-list etc; so if in the default en view, I would rather see the text Argentina that I have just typed rather than rely on wikidata, but for localization in other languages, surely wikidata is the best option; so something like {{#ifeq: {{int:lang}}|en|Argentina|use wikidata}} would get my vote.
I understand one benefit of the int:xxx method is efficiency, but don't fancy creating hundreds of language versions of Agentina—how might we best link words to wikidata items here? For instance for the eponymy of Neopalpa donaldtrumpi, it would be good to be able to type {{WD|Donald Trump}} and have a list somewhere that matches him to Q22686. The repositories may be linked from here to wikidata items, but countries, regions, and many people are not. I believe (and might try in the morning), as in {{Sandbox4}}, I could create a template and then extract the right parameter using Module:Transcluder, so for example we could have {{wikidata items}} and then |Argentina=Q414 |Donald Trump=Q22686 , but the list might be very long (we could break it into several sections, eg one+ per country) and resource-hungry. Is there something like int:xxx , but where we just add Argentina=Q414 ? Thanks, Maculosae tegmine lyncis (talk) 00:26, 29 March 2022 (UTC)
The example above seems to work, Maculosae tegmine lyncis (talk) 07:19, 29 March 2022 (UTC)
Or {{Sandbox8|Argentina}}, Maculosae tegmine lyncis (talk) 07:31, 29 March 2022 (UTC)
Or {{Sandbox7|Argentina}}, Maculosae tegmine lyncis (talk) 08:05, 29 March 2022 (UTC)

I have created the test page {{wdi/Argentina}} (contents: Q414) and {{sandbox3|Argentina}} (version) returns: Argentina. We could easily create from this {{WDI}} and use it wherever.

I guess this is the alternative to the {{Wikidata/Sandbox}} method (which could also be used to pull the "named after" property P138). The advantages of the wdi method include (relative) ease of coding, relative stability of item codes (redirects upon mergers seem to cause no issue), visibility in wikispecies of changes, a more direct route to the item code (once we have created {{wdi/xxx}}), and if we wanted to localize type localities on taxon pages, how else could we do this? Eg Miracinonyx inexpectatus has the type locality USA, Pennsylvania, Port Kennedy Cave: we could easily add wdi/USA (Q30), wdi/Pennsylvania (Q1400), and wdi/Port Kennedy Cave (Q7230739), but it's not obvious to me how else we could look these up (unless perhaps we do a lot of additions to wikidata); we only need to add {{wdi/Argentina}} once. Otherwise, since your last comment, {{Eponyms by person}} has wikidata item lookup for localization of people names, and {{types by repository}} has been switched to draw on {{wdi/Argentina}} rather than parameter #5 (now removed alongside #4). Category:NHT demonstrates default to en for the country name if {{wdi/Tanzania}} does not yet exist.

If this is the way forward, it's possible we may want to create many, many {{wdi/xxx}} — as they are so small, presumably that is no issue. Could we import eg the country names automatically into this format? Maculosae tegmine lyncis (talk) 15:30, 29 March 2022 (UTC)

User:Maculosae tegmine lyncis/Sandbox has the country items (from a wikidata query) (we can perhaps live without Q912052 Wei); other than one-by-one manual creation, how could we go about creating these c. two hundred pages in the style of {{wdi/Argentina}}? thank you, Maculosae tegmine lyncis (talk) 19:53, 29 March 2022 (UTC)
I'm sorry, i don't understand purpose of the creating set of "wdi/<country>" templates. If Wikidata labels is not distinct, these should be fixed in Wikidata primarly. May be provided direct link for this.
Sure, You don't may control Wikidata - this is unreal task. But Wikidata changes (for linked items) may be enabled in the watchlist; and also may be develop/used gadget/query for control changes of the selected properties. Maybe also these controlling tools will be globally improved.
Country names in various languages - is not "core" content for this project. This is very optional feature. My proposal covered all optional facts, only these one. Kaganer (talk) 01:06, 30 March 2022 (UTC)
For "type locality", in the Wikidata item should be filled property d:P5304 (see d:Q56316454, maybe with not fully correct value now). Maybe we may support multiple values. Kaganer (talk) 01:09, 30 March 2022 (UTC)
Were all editors here like you, the way you suggest, more closely connected with wikidata, might work or be better, as well as benefitting wikidata; unfortunately, some/many editors here do not engage with wikidata at all, or at least not knowingly. So a method that asks too much of users is likely not viable/going to get much take-up. (There's an issue for example with taxonomy updates, where some page moves see changes to the wikidata items to which the page(s) are linked, others do not; there are also likely quite a few pages here which are not linked to wikidata.) Also, if we need to be amending module code, there are not many here that can do that (I certainly don't know how, or at least not yet), and it is good to be as self-sufficient as possible. For now at least, I have created {{I}}; it's in use for the {{WDI/David Attenborough}}-related eponymy on Zaglossus attenboroughi. I'll take it to the Village Pump and see what happens, Maculosae tegmine lyncis (talk) 00:10, 31 March 2022 (UTC)
Also, if no-one is opposed, in a few days I'm intending to convert {{Taxa by author}} to the "autotranslate mode", like {{Eponyms of person}} and {{Types by repository}}, many thanks, Maculosae tegmine lyncis (talk) 00:54, 31 March 2022 (UTC)
Please could {{Taxa by author/i18n}} be marked for translation, thank you, Maculosae tegmine lyncis (talk) 00:57, 3 April 2022 (UTC)

──────────── If not:

Thank you, Maculosae tegmine lyncis (talk) 13:05, 5 April 2022 (UTC)

Now marked for translation. Sorry for my late reply: several IRL issues right now. –Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 17:23, 7 April 2022 (UTC).
Many thanks (and, more importantly, hope all's ok in relation to the 26 March message above), Maculosae tegmine lyncis (talk) 19:15, 7 April 2022 (UTC)
I have switched {{Taxa by author}} to this alternative method (though I would like to understand better related efficiency issues, as some parts of Module:Template translation seem to be marked "costly"); for some reason, I had to create Translations:Template:Taxa by author/i18n/Page display title/fr etc for the different language entries to be marked 100% complete (which I guess is desirable); I didn't have to do this with {{Eponyms of person/i18n}} or {{Types by repository/i18n}}, I don't know if I was doing something odd or (I guess, rather more unlikely) the system was, thank you, Maculosae tegmine lyncis (talk) 20:29, 7 April 2022 (UTC)
About "costly": One reason why the server considers {{Taxa by author}} to consume a lot of resources may be that the template is used in more than 47,000 of our Taxa by author categories. In comparison {{Eponyms of person}} is only used in about 2,700 Eponym categories, and {{Types by repository}} in a mere handful of Types by repository categories, hence perhaps wont trigger the "costly" warning. –Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 22:43, 7 April 2022 (UTC).
I'm disable translation of "Page display title" for this template. This is may be useful for regular help page etc., but not for templates. Kaganer (talk) 21:33, 8 April 2022 (UTC)
Yes you're right @Kaganer, good idea. Please disable it if you have done so already. –Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 22:23, 8 April 2022 (UTC).

The above discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this archive.
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